duncanriley.com - Latest Comments in On Race

Re: On Race

ANTIHAVERHILL — Wed, 23 Jul 2008 15:01:00 -0000

Oh your just a wannabe ... lets face it .. you run your mouth and hide

Re: On Race

David A — Thu, 17 Jul 2008 00:24:25 -0000

Dunc,

Agree with your post.

See the post I wrote about this on my website.

Re: On Race

skribe — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 21:04:03 -0000

That maybe the case in some areas of the capitals, but let me tell you it is most certainly not the case in the North-West or the Northern Territory. Just read the Little Children Are Sacred report to see how much of a fair-go we give our indigenous peoples.

Re: On Race

mturro — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 15:00:54 -0000

Of course. But you would be within your rights to be angry as well if you had taken the time to place your remark in a proper context and I, either through ignorance or refusal simply don't take the time to "get" what you were really trying to say. As far as I am concerned the onus is always on me to make sense, to make meaning of the all the information that surrounds me - especially that information which is directed at me. I'm not doing my job as a thinking member of society if i simply "react" to the immediate without stopping to dig deeper. Simple, in the moment, blink style reaction is a huge problem with how we debate. We get so wrapped up in our own perspectives we can't or we won't see the other side.

Re: On Race

xavierv — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 13:39:43 -0000

Can't argue this one either!

Re: On Race

skeskali — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:32:40 -0000

Or rather, "I'll thank you to leave your sarcasm at the door." See? Clearly I'm not perfect (nor have I portrayed myself as such).

Re: On Race

skeskali — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 12:29:40 -0000

Duncan, were you at South by Southwest where Feldman showed up at a panel for the express purpose of disrupting it and making it all about him (instead of the subject at hand - bringing more Black tech bloggers into the spotlight)? Were you there when he verbally assaulted people? Were you there when he threatened a dear friend of mine in a comment thread on FriendFeed? If you can't say yes to any of those questions, then I'll thank you for your sarcasm.

Feldman's a jackass, and he deserves neither my benefit of the doubt, nor my respect.

Re: On Race

nbr — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 11:18:11 -0000

Hm, again, I get your point, I think, but i don't buy it. If I call you a name in public, and it pisses you off, why is the onus then on you to "dig deeper" and "see the context"? Aren't you within your rights to simply get mad and express your anger? And again, isn't that a predictable aspect of your "reaction"?

Re: On Race

mturro — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:07:27 -0000

I think the anger comes after the reaction sticks an nobody bothers to dig deeper into the matter. Nobody is bothering to investigate past the decoy. The anger is over the laziness of mind. The anger is over those who cry racism without bothering to see context. The anger is over having to defend and explain that folks are picking out one act of a play and treating it as if it is a singular work. The anger - which I share - is that we live in an intellectually lazy culture that always seems to shoot first and ask questions never.

Re: On Race

mturro — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 10:00:48 -0000

moving this to the proper reply spot

Re: On Race

nbr — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:39:44 -0000

True, but some people are just seeing it now, right? That's the flip-side of the real-time nature of web communications -- total asynchronicity (if that's a word). For the Verizon folks and the protesters, it might as well have been posted last week. And who's to say that the "reaction" that was the "point" of the "art" can't go on for an extended period of time? After all, we still respond viscerally to lots of great work that's more than a year old.

Re: On Race

duncanriley — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:11:50 -0000

because the blowback happened 12 months ago when the video was released.

Re: On Race

duncanriley — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:10:45 -0000

I'd find it offensive, but I wouldn't virtually lynch the person either based on one mistake that has been long apologized for I'd note as well. We all make mistakes, and I don't believe Loren is racist, and I've seen it with my own eyes.

Re: On Race

duncanriley — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:08:30 -0000

The White Australia policy dates to 1901, and was abolished well and truly before 1976 (indeed we've not long celebrated the 40th anniversary of Aboriginal people getting the vote). No country has a perfect history, but I can tell you one thing today (and this is in MY time, not the past) that most Australians do give people a fair go irrespective of their cultural background. We're a melting pot of different cultures, but we celebrate what we have in common, without obsessing over our differences.

Re: On Race

duncanriley — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 03:04:21 -0000

Cecily, are you perfect, have you ever made a mistake? God, I know I have have...far to often actually ;-) If he repeats it, I'll be the first to concede that you are right, he f*cked up, but that doesn't make him a serial offender either.

Re: On Race

shey — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:50:13 -0000

Agreed -- but personally, I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. However, repeat offenses will void his "apology". You're right -- he'll always be linked to the incident, but sometime along the way he might actually learn something from this, or maybe he won't, but that's up to him.

Re: On Race

skeskali — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:33:09 -0000

That one incident, in my book, does make him a racist. A racist isn't as simple as calling people racial slurs, although that's easy enough to spot. Anyone who harbors any idea that someone who is of a different race is worthy of ridicule and/or scorn demonstrates that this person has a low view of said people. That's a racist. Not all racists wear sheets, and burn crosses. Some racists are the people who, when they find out that a white friend of theirs has moved into a majority minority neighborhood stick up their noses, curl their lips and say with their voices dripping with disdain "Why did you move into that neighborhood?" By virtue of his actions - actions which, thanks to these discussions, will be linked for ages and will follow him around like the bad smell he normally leaves in his wake - Loren Feldman will be forever linked to this incident, and will forever have people casting doubt on his integrity and character. Poor judgement? Of course. Racist? Absolutely.

Re: On Race

skeskali — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 02:26:54 -0000

Were Australians giving aboriginal people "a fair go" during their "Keep Australia White" propaganda campaigns of the 20s (which lasted on the books until 1976)?

Re: On Race

nbr — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:38:26 -0000

I think I understand basically what you're saying, but logically, if the "point" of the video was the "reaction," then why isn't he happy about everything that's been going on over the past couple of days? Was this not the kind of reaction he was hoping for? He took a major risk, and he pissed people off, and now there's some blowback. Why does any of this anger come as a surprise?

Re: On Race

shey — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:14:07 -0000

Thanks Duncan -- we're definitely on the same page there.

Re: On Race

duncanriley — Sat, 12 Jul 2008 01:03:33 -0000

Shey, I don't disagree with a thing you've said. We cant wish it away, nor should we, however the more people who accept people for just being people, the better off we'll all be. I can't pretend to imagine what deep seated racism feels like, and when I hear yourself, Corvida and others get upset it's an eye opener to myself and others in getting some way to fully understanding that. I've only copped a little bit in the past, in the United States, and being told to speak English for example (WTF is right), and I know how angry that made me feel. It's nothing compared to what you, Corvida and others face. I can't fix it, but I can give you my support where ever possible and in this case I felt the need to contribute. Not because you are African American mind you, but because I think you're a great guy, with a great blog who contributes positively to this space. Same for Corvida + Wayne.

Re: On Race

skribe — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 22:26:16 -0000

Yes, it does seem very strange. I've always been somewhat mystified over what percentage of a specific racial mix you have to be to be associated with that particular group. I note the variance in opinion over whether Obama is White, Black, neither or both.

BTW Duncan, I haven't seen the videos, but what do you feel the reaction here would have been had someone done "Tech Abo"?

Re: On Race

shey — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 21:56:41 -0000

Duncan, I appreciate your viewpoint. In a perfect world, yes, we would and should all be colourblind. And believe me, I'm happy to hear folks say that they are.

I agree that the distinction has to be made between the two occurrences: Feldman and the Sutton/Corvida interview. Feldman was acting a fool to get attention at the expense of race representation to gain publicity. Granted, that one incident alone does not make him a racist, just incredibly foolish. The Sutton/Corvida incident was outright racism - the hate speech uttered was unconscionable. But as much as they are separate incidents, the big FAIL that's been happening the community is treating them as isolated incidents instead of acknowledging that this is a common type of behaviour that is NOT acceptable towards ANY race. And that's very unfortunate. Don't get me wrong, free speech is free speech. But it should never be ok to back that kind of behaviour.

If we fail to recognize the areas in which we fall short as a society and as a community, and we overlook them, how will the situation improve? For me as a Black person, that change is necessary; the status quo is not acceptable and I think many have expressed that recently. I think others have a hard time grasping that.

We can't just wish it all away by saying "lets all be colourblind". Forced ignorance is the worst possible solution. Those who are tired of the race talk, yeah it will make them happy. For for the minorities affected by this issue (and others that it will happen to in the future), this isn't like someone making fun of your nose or your hair or your stutter; it cuts deep -- deeper than any majority member can understand.

Re: On Race

mturro — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:58:21 -0000

I totally agree with you - he's not racist - he's more brilliant that racist. Still, he did make a racist video - that was the point of the Technigga series no? He was deliberately being provocative - he wanted to create reaction. The art in this whole mess is not in the content it's in that reaction. That reaction is what makes him an artist, not the stupid, racist parody. That part is just the decoy. Really, the more I get to know his work the more I am truly impressed with him as an artist. He is unique.

Re: On Race

duncanriley — Fri, 11 Jul 2008 19:34:48 -0000

Cyndy, perhaps the difference is the Australian notion of "a fair go" (it's nearly a national ethos) in that we give everyone a fair go, irrespective of their nationality. In our isolation we've also developed a strong national identity that embraces different backgrounds as our own. If you ever visit, try visiting a "Australian" restuarnt (and no, the "outback steakhouse" isn't Australian, no matter what they tell you). Australian cooking is a fusion of Asian, European and English styles. We embrace our differences and we make ourselves better for them as part of being Australian, not some sub-set of being Australian.

As I said in the post, as someone looking in I've always found it strange, but I also accept that this is within the subtext of me being australian.